Host: Ali K. ChishtiGuest: Javed QaziThe Wire Pakistan Blog and Podcast
Watch Full Podcast Here.
Javed Qazi is a prominent intellectual, lawyer and social commentator known for his deep insights into the cultural, historical, and political landscape of Sindh and Pakistan. With a focus on social justice, unity, and the preservation of indigenous heritage, he has played a key role in advocating for the empowerment of the middle class and fostering interfaith harmony. Through his work, Javed Qazi has emphasized the importance of acknowledging local cultures and heroes, while also addressing the challenges of governance, extremism, and inequality in the region.
Q: How would you describe the connection to Sindh, especially its spirit and identity?
Javed Qazi: Sindh has a rich history shaped by diverse religious and cultural influences. The region's spirit is deeply connected to its liberal, open, and jolly character, reflecting the essence of Sindh. This identity is molded by centuries of local traditions and influences from invaders, making Sindh unique in its openness and spiritual depth.
Q: Can you share your thoughts on Sindh's history and its Sufi heritage?
Javed Qazi: Sindh is known for its Sufi heritage, where people have transcended various religions over centuries. The region has always embraced spiritual traditions, and the Sufi influence has been key in shaping Sindh's identity. The land has seen the coexistence of different religions, often blending these influences in a unique and harmonious way.
Q: What is the Bhakti movement, and how does it connect to Sindh?
Javed Qazi: The Bhakti movement is a centuries-old tradition that emphasizes unity and inclusivity. Led by figures like Kabir, it advocated for the blending of Hindus and Muslims, promoting shared experiences and understanding. This movement is deeply connected to Sindh, where the inclusive spirit helped bridge differences between communities and shaped the region's religious and cultural landscape.
Q: How do you view Hinduism, particularly in relation to Sindh’s cultural identity?
Javed Qazi: Hinduism, in this context, is not just a religion but a way of life. It’s a broad cultural and societal framework, deeply rooted in the subcontinent’s history. The Bhakti movement, especially figures like Kabir, redefined 'Hindu' as not just a religious identity but as a citizen of this land, transcending religious boundaries and promoting a unified societal identity.
Q: What is the role of religion in society, and how does it impact individuals and communities?
Javed Qazi: Religion plays an important role in satisfying the soul, but it is also often manipulated by some individuals for personal gain, turning it into a business. While every society and individual needs religion, it’s essential for people to engage in worldly pursuits such as education, skills development, and contributing to society in a practical way.
Q: How would you describe Sindh’s historical context in relation to the rest of Pakistan?
Javed Qazi: Sindh and the Gujarat region have historically been places of refuge, especially during times of invasion. These areas offered sanctuary to many fleeing from persecution. The history of Sindh is often portrayed as beginning with Mohammed bin Qasim, but it’s important to understand the context of indigenous rulers like Raja Dahir and their role in this historical narrative.
Q: There’s a debate about the glorification of historical invaders in Pakistan. Can you share your perspective on this?
Javed Qazi: The glorification of invaders like Mohammed bin Qasim, Ghaznavi, and others in Pakistan’s history has been a point of controversy. Some argue that these invaders should not be seen as heroes, as their arrival often resulted in conflict and disruption. The historical narrative in Pakistan has been shaped by these figures, but it's essential to rethink their portrayal and consider the broader impact of their actions.
Q: The British played a role in dividing Sindhi Hindus and Muslims, especially with how they changed the script of Sindhi from Sanskrit to Arabic. Do you think this was a deliberate move to divide thousands of years of culture?
Javed Qazi: Yes, it was a calculated move. By changing the script, the British sought to erode the historical and cultural identity of Sindh. The decision to shift from Sanskrit to Arabic had far-reaching consequences on the Sindhi people’s sense of unity and cultural continuity.
Q: After partition, why do you think the majority of successful entrepreneurs in Sindh were Hindus and not Muslims? What role did cultural and social structures play in this?
Javed Qazi: Hindus had a more established presence in urban centers and were involved in commerce and industry, while many Muslims in Sindh were still organized around rural, tribal, or clan-based structures. This disparity in social organization contributed to Hindus’ dominance in the business sector at the time.
Q: There was a huge loss for Sindh when the Hindu business elite migrated to India after partition. How do you think this loss impacted the region’s growth and development?
Javed Qazi: The migration of the Hindu business elite had a massive impact. It resulted in a loss of skilled professionals, entrepreneurs, and a flourishing business class, which affected Sindh’s economic development for decades. The region struggled to recover its business acumen and urbanization after that mass exodus.
Q: You mentioned that the separatist philosophy, which was once prominent, is now irrelevant. Do you believe there’s still a place for ethnic or linguistic separatism in Pakistan, especially in Sindh?
Javed Qazi: I think the idea of separatism is outdated. Today, we need to focus on the unity of Pakistan and work towards building a strong, cohesive society. The concept of ethnicity or language creating divisions has become less relevant, especially as we see more Sindhis, Punjabis, and Mahajirs working together. Unity is the only way forward for progress.
Q: You've highlighted the role of the middle class in society. Do you think Sindh needs a political party led by the middle class, especially one that can represent both Sindhi and Mahajir communities?
Javed Qazi: Absolutely. A middle-class-led political party is crucial for bringing about positive change in Sindh. It would bridge the gap between Sindhi and Mahajir communities, foster a sense of unity, and focus on governance and social reforms. A party that prioritizes the middle class can address the needs of education, healthcare, and employment.
Q: In your view, what role should the middle class play in Sindh’s political landscape, and what can they do to challenge the traditional power structures?
Javed Qazi: The middle class should take the lead in advocating for better governance, transparency, and social justice. They need to be vocal, participate in elections, and bring about a change in the way politics has been run by feudal families. By focusing on education, healthcare, and creating economic opportunities, the middle class can set a new political agenda.
Q: What are your thoughts on the growing wave of extremism in Pakistan, especially the religious violence we’ve been witnessing? How can Sindh contribute to fighting against it?
Javed Qazi: The rise in extremism is a serious concern. Sindh, with its tradition of religious tolerance, has always been a place where people of different faiths lived peacefully. It is crucial that we, as Sindhis, continue to stand for inclusivity and fight against extremism. We need to create awareness, educate the masses, and ensure that religion remains a personal matter, not an instrument for hate.
Q: You mentioned that Sindh has always been a place of religious harmony, with people from different faiths living together. How can we protect this legacy in the face of rising intolerance?
Javed Qazi: Sindh’s history of coexistence should serve as a model for the rest of the country. Protecting this legacy requires promoting interfaith dialogue, encouraging mutual respect, and ensuring that religious minorities are treated with dignity. We must also work towards building a more inclusive society, where people of all faiths feel safe and valued.
Q: You talked about the historical distortion of Pakistan’s narrative. What is your take on how Pakistan has neglected its indigenous cultures and heroes in favor of external figures?
Javed Qazi: Pakistan’s history has been shaped by multiple civilizations, and it’s unfortunate that we have often neglected our indigenous heroes and cultures. By focusing on figures from foreign histories, we have lost touch with our own rich heritage. It’s high time that we recognize our local heroes, celebrate indigenous cultures, and create a narrative that is truly reflective of our diverse history.
Q: You’ve emphasized the importance of acceptance and unity in Sindh. Can you elaborate on how the acceptance of different cultures, languages, and communities can help us build a stronger Pakistan?
Javed Qazi: Acceptance is the cornerstone of any strong society. In Sindh, we have a tradition of incorporating different communities and cultures, from Sindhis to Mahajirs to Baloch, and even people of other religious backgrounds. By embracing this diversity and promoting equality, we can build a Pakistan that is united, strong, and capable of overcoming its challenges.
Q: Looking at the current situation in Sindh, what do you think is the most pressing issue that needs immediate attention from both the government and the people?
Javed Qazi: The most pressing issue is the lack of good governance. Sindh needs political leadership that prioritizes the welfare of its people, especially in terms of education, healthcare, and infrastructure. Additionally, there is a need to address the growing disparity between the rich and the poor. Empowering the middle class and ensuring that basic services reach everyone is essential for Sindh’s progress.
Q: You mentioned the case of Shahnawaz, a tragic incident that resulted from a false blasphemy accusation. How do you think these false accusations are affecting the social fabric of Sindh?
Javed Qazi: The case of Shahnawaz is a heartbreaking example of how false accusations can ruin lives and tear apart communities. These incidents are deeply harmful to the social fabric of Sindh and Pakistan. They create division, fear, and distrust among people. We need stronger laws to protect individuals from such accusations and ensure that justice is served fairly and without bias.
Q: How do you see the future of Sindh in terms of its political and social landscape? Do you believe that Sindh can overcome its challenges and become a beacon of progress?
Javed Qazi: I’m optimistic about the future of Sindh. While there are challenges, such as feudalism, corruption, and extremism, there is a growing movement among the middle class and the youth to bring about positive change. If we focus on education, governance, and social reforms, Sindh can overcome its obstacles and become a model of progress for the rest of Pakistan. The future is in our hands, and together, we can create a better Sindh.
This interview was conducted by Ali K. Chishti for The Wire Pakistan Blog and Podcast.
Comentários